Interchange Conference Transcript
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[Message #1 04:03:48 PM, Wednesday, March 10, 2004]
Karin Westman:
What are your initial impressions of 1xbet online sports betting 's character in the opening scene of Act I? Are these impressions confirmed during the rest of the play, or challenged?
As you discuss to the questions above, try to find examples, too, to support your interpretations. And feel free to address 1xbet online sports betting the first question in your first posting, too, so that we can get the discussion rolling....
[Message #2 01:51:22 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
Torvald is very superficial. 1xbet online sports betting 's very into showing off his wife and family. 1xbet online sports betting wants to be seen as the strong provider who gives his family everything they need and want so that they can be seen by outsiders as the perfect family.
[Message #3 01:52:25 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Hanna Patterson:
He talks to nora like 1xbet online sports betting 's a small child, and he never seems to take a serious tone with her. He also seems to be concerned with money, and the image and reputation that being indebt creates. The fact that he is extremely self-involved is shown throughout the play
[Message #4 01:52:38 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Joe Geist:
My initial impression of Trovald was first of all 1xbet online sports betting 's kind of annoying with all the name calling. In what we just read I think 1xbet online sports betting calls Nora 5 different pet names. But anyway, my impression of Torvald is that 1xbet online sports betting is rather controlling and obviously has a low view of women shown by when 1xbet online sports betting says "Nora, Nora, how like a woman"
[Message #5 01:52:38 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
I think Torvald loves her very much, but it's not a mature, marriage kind of love. I think he loves her more like maybe one of his children. It always seems to me he is not speaking in his grown-up voice, but a different voice, like the voice that adults use when they are talking to young children. And he also has rules about how 1xbet online sports betting can't have candy or sweets, and it doesn't seem very likely that a husband would make such a rule for his wife, but more of a rule that parents make for their kids. He also says a couple of time, "how like a woman", like he is kind of poking fun of her.
[Message #6 01:53:33 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
So, why does Nora stay with him, if 1xbet online sports betting is, as Joe mentioned, kind of annoying?
[Message #7 01:53:40 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Rebecca Mason:
From the very beginning of the play, I get the impression that Torvald thinks of his wife as a play toy. The tone he talks to her in is very degrading almost, and belittling. For example, the way he asks her if his little "squirrel" has been munching on macaroons. The sad part is that 1xbet online sports betting responds to his voice. His voice continues, but 1xbet online sports betting in the end sees.
[Message #8 01:54:04 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
The impression that I first got of Torvald is correct, because at the end we find out that 1xbet online sports betting is only concerned with how their marriage looks to other people and what people think of him. 1xbet online sports betting is not at all concerned with his wife or their marriage.
[Message #9 01:54:39 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
I agree that Torvald does treat Nora like a child. He dresses her her up and teaches her a dance so that 1xbet online sports betting can perform in front of his friends. 1xbet online sports betting 's almost like a pet.
[Message #10 01:56:28 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
I'm not quite sure why Nora stays with him. Perhaps it's because that is all 1xbet online sports betting 's ever known. Her father treated her the same way and now her husband does. 1xbet online sports betting just doesn't seem to know any better.
[Message #11 01:56:49 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Joe Geist:
I 1xbet online sports betting Nora stays with him or is with him in the first place only for the appearance of a happy normal marriage. From what we just read in class they do sound very in love but by the end of the play the mask is taken off and we see what Nora is really thinking.
[Message #12 01:56:54 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Hanna Patterson:
I think 1xbet online sports betting stays with Torvald because 1xbet online sports betting has never been allowed to stand on her own. Her father always took care of her and babied her in her youth, and Torvald took over that role in her adulthood. 1xbet online sports betting has not yet realized that 1xbet online sports betting does not have to be a part of this "ideal" family, 1xbet online sports betting can make her own choices and find out what kind of person 1xbet online sports betting wants to be.
[Message #13 01:57:32 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
I think Nora stays with him because 1xbet online sports betting has gotten so used to telling herself that 1xbet online sports betting is happy, that 1xbet online sports betting actually does start to believe it. 1xbet online sports betting doesn't admit to herself her true feelings until the end of the play. Also, I think 1xbet online sports betting has become quite used to the money that he gives her, because he gives her sort of an allowance, which 1xbet online sports betting uses to pay off her debt. Which is another reason I think 1xbet online sports betting is staying with him, 1xbet online sports betting knows that 1xbet online sports betting won't be able to pay Krogstad back.
[Message #14 01:57:40 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
Does Nora enable Torvald's character and the way he treats her, then, until the end at least? Is 1xbet online sports betting at all responsible?
[Message #15 01:57:49 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Rebecca Mason:
Nora stays with him because of their marriage committment. As 1xbet online sports betting says in her ending speech..about how 1xbet online sports betting feels like when 1xbet online sports betting was a child and her father treated her as a doll as well. 1xbet online sports betting has just been transfered from one male dominance to the other. 1xbet online sports betting knows no different at this time.
[Message #16 02:00:13 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
I believe 1xbet online sports betting is very responsible. 1xbet online sports betting never did anything to make him believe that their marriage wasn't perfect. If he liked something, 1xbet online sports betting said 1xbet online sports betting liked it too. If he wanted her to do something, 1xbet online sports betting acted like 1xbet online sports betting was happy to do it for him. 1xbet online sports betting even says at the end of Act III, "and so I got the same taste as you--or I pretended to; I can't remember." From this I concluded that 1xbet online sports betting has been lying so long that 1xbet online sports betting realizes 1xbet online sports betting doesn't really know herself at all anymore...1xbet online sports betting doesn't know when 1xbet online sports betting is lying and when 1xbet online sports betting is telling the truth.
[Message #17 02:00:24 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
Nora definately enables Torvald. 1xbet online sports betting tries to make sure 1xbet online sports betting and the house is perfect and if 1xbet online sports betting ever goes outside of the rules 1xbet online sports betting hides it. No matter what her motive or crime, 1xbet online sports betting is afraid that Torvald will not understand. So, 1xbet online sports betting hide macaroons in her pockets, 1xbet online sports betting borrows money secretively, and then dances to appease Torvald. 1xbet online sports betting is very responsible for the way 1xbet online sports betting is being treated because 1xbet online sports betting takes it and doesn't stand up for herself.
[Message #18 02:01:01 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Hanna Patterson:
I think that Nora is partly responsible for the way Torvald treats her because 1xbet online sports betting has not even attempted to think on her own, 1xbet online sports betting just seems to accept her husband's behavior until the end of the play. 1xbet online sports betting has simply been lying to herself throughout her marriage.
[Message #19 02:01:38 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
Sarah makes a good point. 1xbet online sports betting had been lying to herself for so long that 1xbet online sports betting doesn't know the truth anymore.
[Message #20 02:01:58 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Joe Geist:
Oh 1xbet online sports betting 's definitely responsible! 1xbet online sports betting plays right into it, 1xbet online sports betting has him pick out her outfit, 1xbet online sports betting says that 1xbet online sports betting can't do anything without him, he teachers her that dance. But I dont blame her for doing it because thats what was the norm at that time.
[Message #21 02:02:51 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Rebecca Mason:
I understand Sarah's point, but I don't think 1xbet online sports betting is responsible because 1xbet online sports betting has known only one way to be treated, and one way to act, her entire life. It is a very difficult thing to just terminate such a long lasting relationship, or even to change the way it has been for years. I believe 1xbet online sports betting is extremely bottled up inside but didn't know what to do in the beginning but follow along. What are her other options at this point in her life with kids and a family?
[Message #22 02:03:40 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
Is Torvald unusual in the context of the play's society? That is, if 1xbet online sports betting 's responsible (to some extent) for enabling his character, what role does the rest of the society play? Do others criticize or endorse him?
[Message #23 02:04:49 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
If you are taught from birth that you, as a woman, couldn't do anything on your own then you will believe it. Like Joe said, women being controlled by men was the norm. This goes along with what Rebecca was saying. If this is how 1xbet online sports betting was taught to act then what other choice does 1xbet online sports betting have except to go against her own nature and society?
[Message #24 02:05:52 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
And I think Torvald is just as responsible, because he just eats all of it right up!! He loves that fact that he has a helpless little "squirrel" to take care of, and he loves when he has to do things for her. 1xbet online sports betting obviously knows this because her father treated her the same way. I think part of the reason 1xbet online sports betting gets liberated is because of Kristine's character. Kristine is kind of a loner, who has been by herself, working and standing on her own two feet, and I think Nora is jealous of that. That is why at the beginning of the play, all Nora can do is throw Torvald's money in Kristine's face.
[Message #25 02:07:00 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Joe Geist:
I think a way of interpreting Dr. Ranks character is the reason he is alone is because he isn't the normal male at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong but hadn't he never been married? Just something to think about...because we learn that he has real conversations with Nora and actually listens to 1xbet online sports betting feelings and thoughts and stories.
[Message #26 02:07:42 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
Society is who is really responsible for this. Society felt that women were weak and needed a man to take care of them. Torvald is following this to an extent but he is not controlling in the normal sense. He treats Nora like a child. Society would have him treat 1xbet online sports betting like an adult who needed commands. Torvald treated 1xbet online sports betting like a child who needed taught. This is unusual for the time and society. It might almost be better in a sense because he is not cruel to Nora like some men were to their wives in this time period.
[Message #27 02:08:00 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Hanna Patterson:
I think that society plays a role in Nora's behavior as well. During this particular time, women were expected to serve their husbands and bear children. It would have been considered extremely radical for Nora to be independent, and I think that it took a lot of courage for her to make the choice 1xbet online sports betting did. Society was pushing her to be strictly a wife and a mother.
[Message #28 02:08:02 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
*******We're going to have to wrap up 1xbet online sports betting portion of our discussion, so as a final posting, please respond to the following question:
Has Toravald's character changed during the course of the play? If so, how, and why? If not, what has allowed 1xbet online sports betting to remain the same?
[Message #29 02:08:46 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
I agree with Joe! In my mind, when 1xbet online sports betting leaves at the end of the play, 1xbet online sports betting is starting to realize that the kind of love 1xbet online sports betting has for Dr. Rank is the kind of love that 1xbet online sports betting really wants, and I hope they fall in love and run away together!!
[Message #30 02:08:47 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Rebecca Mason:
No, it is not unusual for Torvald to act like this. This is why I don't 1xbet online sports betting Nora's responsible. A society's culture shapes a person's identity, which can sometimes be an unfortunate thing. We act today like our times act. Culture is a rapidly changing process of beliefs. And during this time period, women were dolls and dependent on their husbands, which yes is a horrible thing, but is the truth.
[Message #31 02:09:49 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Sarah Siemer:
I don't think he has changed at all really. He still treats her like a child that doesn't know what 1xbet online sports betting is doing. He thinks 1xbet online sports betting is just confused, and I don't think he realizes that 1xbet online sports betting really will never come back.
[Message #32 02:10:17 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Joe Geist:
I dont think Toravalds character ever changed or ever will. He doesn't change because Nora has always played right into how he has treated 1xbet online sports betting . I hope he changes later but we dont get to know that.
[Message #33 02:10:22 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Alicia Bowman:
Torvald's character hasn't really changed. He wants to forget that anything ever happened and just go back to the way things were. He still wants to treat 1xbet online sports betting like a child. He wants to still pretend that his marriage is perfect.
[Message #34 02:10:42 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Rebecca Mason:
I feel as though he hasn't changed a bit because still at the end he continues to not listen to 1xbet online sports betting .