Interchange Conference Transcript
y:\diwe5net\CLASSES\KWestm10\CHATIbsen
[Message #1 04:01:07 PM, Wednesday, March 10, 2004]
Karin Westman:
In Act I, Nora frequently acts as Torvald's "little lark" and "squirrel"(1131-2); by the end of Act III, Nora tells Torvald 1xbet sports betting had "duties to [her]self" (1176) and that 1xbet sports betting must leave him and the children. Does the picture of Nora's character in the opening scene and in Act I prepare us at all for the Nora of Act III? Why or why not?
As you discuss to the questions above, try to find examples, too, to support your interpretations.
[Message #2 01:50:31 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
It may somewhat, since 1xbet sports betting has little secrets that 1xbet sports betting keeps from him (ex: the macaroons). But, it is still a pretty severe change in character.
[Message #3 01:51:12 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
1xbet sports betting seemed so flighty and carefree that I was surprised at her secret in a way. But given that 1xbet sports betting didn't know the seriousness of what 1xbet sports betting had actually done, 1xbet sports betting still seemed kind of the same person.
[Message #4 01:51:13 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
Not particularly, In Act I Nora seems perfectly happy with acting as Torvald's "little lark"
[Message #5 01:52:04 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
Do the rest of you agree with Mike?
[Message #6 01:52:04 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I thought it was a very uncharacteristic thing for her to do. A huge revelation, that's for sure. 1xbet sports betting always presents herself as cheerful, content and happy to be his pet, almost. It's almost annoying seeing how submissive 1xbet sports betting is, but then at the end, I was taken aback by her actions
[Message #7 01:52:25 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I don't think that the way 1xbet sports betting acts in Act I prepares the reader at ALL for what we get in Act III. 1xbet sports betting was always very much wanting to please her husband, and never thinking of things on her own-- I guess what Shanna said about the macarroons was true though...
[Message #8 01:53:13 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
But hiding guilty pleasures, like sweets, does not mean one is going to leave 1xbet sports betting family.
[Message #9 01:53:19 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
Though it seems to hint at what is to come when 1xbet sports betting is humming with a smile of quiet satisfaction and says: Hm, if you only knew what expenses we larks and squirrels have, Torvald
[Message #10 01:53:27 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
But, her asking him for money is so that 1xbet sports betting can pay Krogstad...which we don't really know at the beginning. This shows that 1xbet sports betting has a secret side of her that goes deeper than macaroons.
[Message #11 01:54:29 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
this is true, but the fact that 1xbet sports betting seems to enjoy being her husband's "pet" and doing things to please him, led to a very surprising end.
[Message #12 01:54:37 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
So, Nora's going against Torvald in Act I, but only 1xbet sports betting knows it?
[Message #13 01:54:54 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
RE: #11...or not going against 1xbet sports betting , in some ways!
[Message #14 01:55:16 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I think so. It's Torvald projecting the image of a "pet" upon her. 1xbet sports betting is merely trying to take care of her family.
[Message #15 01:55:39 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
I think 1xbet sports betting enjoyed being 'the pet' and that it was very natural for her. I don't know that I think it's a real personal thing with her husband - he just fits nicely into the kind of world 1xbet sports betting wants.
[Message #16 01:55:55 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I don't think 1xbet sports betting decides to leave him until right at the very moment 1xbet sports betting says the words in Act III. It's so easy to pretend to be happy in a little house with little children and little goals. I don't think 1xbet sports betting expected to do something so drastic.
[Message #17 01:56:18 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
1xbet sports betting was playing a part, basically.
[Message #18 01:56:31 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I wouldn't say 1xbet sports betting enjoyed being a pet though. 1xbet sports betting was a pet for her father, a little doll. We see that 1xbet sports betting wants to strike out and do things for herself with the loan that 1xbet sports betting gets from Krogstad.
[Message #19 01:56:33 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I didn't really think that 1xbet sports betting was going against him. As i look back now and read over those details more carefully, it almost seems like there is something 1xbet sports betting 's trying to hide, going against him. But I also think that what Ann said is very true. I agree.
[Message #20 01:57:52 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
I don't think 1xbet sports betting sees herself as going against him. And they are such little things to her, even the loan, which was absolutely necessary and as 1xbet sports betting says 'done out of love'
[Message #21 01:58:11 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
I felt like 1xbet sports betting was trying to protect him from the truth in some ways and 1xbet sports betting trys to accomplish this by hiding things from him
[Message #22 01:58:11 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I wouldn't say 1xbet sports betting 's going against him. 1xbet sports betting 's unconcioiusly doing these things for herself.
[Message #23 01:59:12 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
1xbet sports betting 's so afraid to be herself. 1xbet sports betting doesn't want Torvald to know that 1xbet sports betting thinks for herself. The loan, sneaking sweets, having friends.... it's not her life. At the end, 1xbet sports betting has a revelation and begins to want to live for herself, not just be his pet. It happens very quickly, though the sparks of the enlightenment may have been present for a while.
[Message #24 01:59:26 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
But is 1xbet sports betting trying to protect him or is 1xbet sports betting trying to protect herself from the onslaught from him that would be a result of the embarassment he would suffer if anyone found out about it?
[Message #25 01:59:39 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
But initially, when we see her "strike out" and get the loan, we get the impression that 1xbet sports betting 's doing it solely because 1xbet sports betting loves him, not in some attempt to be doing things on her own, to be independant of him in any way. I think that her motives were very genuinely out of love.
[Message #26 01:59:42 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
Protect 1xbet sports betting .
[Message #27 02:00:07 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
Good points so far about Nora's character and 1xbet sports betting reasons for playing the role of Act I, and for getting the money in the first place.
What makes Nora decide not to play anymore the role 1xbet sports betting plays so well in Act I, then? What is it in Act III that makes the difference?
[Message #28 02:00:10 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I agree. protect 1xbet sports betting
[Message #29 02:00:16 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
I agree with 1xbet sports betting especially after seeing his out burst from finding out
[Message #30 02:01:00 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
I don't think 1xbet sports betting ever expects an onslaught from him. I think 1xbet sports betting is more worried about what it will do to his ego and the impact on their relationship. 1xbet sports betting is very dependant on him
[Message #31 02:01:14 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
But 1xbet sports betting described his reaction that 1xbet sports betting wanted as a miracle? Why would 1xbet sports betting say that if 1xbet sports betting wasn't afraid of how he would react?
[Message #32 02:01:52 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I think what makes the difference is the realization that their marriage is rather superficial. Like 1xbet sports betting said, they never talked about anything with real significance, and it wasn't ever very deep. I think it was a very rash decision, and it made me sad/frustrated that 1xbet sports betting wasn't going to stick it out and figure things out.
[Message #33 02:02:46 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I love that the whole time 1xbet sports betting is waiting to be adored by someone other than her husband. 1xbet sports betting wants to be adored by some stranger who really can see her for her beauty, not just for the personal satisfaction that 1xbet sports betting provides for him. When Torvald has his outburst, 1xbet sports betting really understands how much this dream of someone else, or even something else, is really true and important to her. That's why 1xbet sports betting leaves him.
[Message #34 02:02:48 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I don't think they could have figured things out. He was willing to toss 1xbet sports betting out just because of this one little thing that embarassed him. I know I wouldn't want to stay with someone like that!
[Message #35 02:03:27 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I agree with Debbie. Nora sees the possibility of the life 1xbet sports betting 's always wanted.
[Message #36 02:03:34 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I agree with 1xbet sports betting . A marrage cannot recover from such a savage verbal beating.
[Message #37 02:04:15 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I guess you and I are in agreement then, 1xbet sports betting . Haha.
[Message #38 02:04:26 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
Yes hes reaction was a bit Dr. Hyde like one moment he doesnt want 1xbet sports betting tainting the kids the next he forgives 1xbet sports betting and everything is perfect again
[Message #39 02:05:17 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
Is their marriage unusual, in the context of the play's society? That is, how do the other characters respond to the way Nora behaves, and to their marriage?
[Message #40 02:05:18 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I was saddened by the whole thing with Dr. Rank. He was what Nora really wanted in a husband. Someone who cared about 1xbet sports betting and really appreciated having meaningful conversations.
[Message #41 02:05:46 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
That's right, Mike. 1xbet sports betting 's so concerned about his reputation that 1xbet sports betting goes crazy. 1xbet sports betting doesn't even worry about how this secret has been affecting his wife. Then when his honor is safe, 1xbet sports betting expects to go back to his wife and play nice again.
[Message #42 02:06:00 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
But he was also so completely unprepared for it. 1xbet sports betting has never given any indication of acting on her own. Or at least not in such a big way that Torvald would have suspicions
[Message #43 02:06:16 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
I wanted Nora and Dr. Rank to run away together. That's really 1xbet sports betting I expected to happen.
[Message #44 02:06:30 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I agree that he was very harsh, cruel, insensitive, etc toward her when he found out-- but isn't that to be expected? I mean, it could've led to a revelation for himself-- him seeing that he was being a jerk, and needed to actually love her for who 1xbet sports betting is. I see where Debbie and Shanna are coming from-- totally, I woudln't want to be married to someone who would treat me like that. BUT, I couldn't help but feel sorry for her husband in the end. He was going to be alone, with three kids.
[Message #45 02:06:39 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
Yeah, too bad 1xbet sports betting died, huh?
[Message #46 02:07:04 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I agree with Ann, 1xbet sports betting was really unexpected
[Message #47 02:07:22 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Karin Westman:
*********We're 1xbet sports betting to have to wrap up this portion of our discussion, so as a final posting, please respond to the following question:
Has Nora's character changed during the course of the play? If so, how, and why? If not, what has allowed 1xbet sports betting to remain the same?
[Message #48 02:08:08 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Ann Crusch:
I don't think 1xbet sports betting changed much. I saw her as flighty and optimistic to the end.
[Message #49 02:08:40 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
Her character at the end of the play is very different from what it was at the beginning. I think that 1xbet sports betting still has the same ideas, but now 1xbet sports betting has the strength (and a reason) to voice those ideas.
[Message #50 02:08:59 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Melissa Dorsch:
I think Nora's character has changed. I guess 1xbet sports betting realized that 1xbet sports betting wasn't happy where 1xbet sports betting was at, that her and her husband really didn't know each other-- that their relationship wasn't founded on anything significant, or anything that was deep enough to last. And then 1xbet sports betting decided to leave. Going from depending on him, to leaving-- that's kind of a change...
[Message #51 02:09:36 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
Mike Matthews:
I believe that Nora's character really matured during the play. Because 1xbet sports betting finally realized that 1xbet sports betting hadnt been happy for so long that 1xbet sports betting was confusing the show 1xbet sports betting had put on with her father and Torvald with actual happyness
[Message #52 02:09:41 PM, Thursday, March 11, 2004]
1xbet sports betting :
Of course 1xbet sports betting has changed. 1xbet sports betting 's willing to leave everything 1xbet sports betting has ever been TOLD 1xbet sports betting wanted to go find what 1xbet sports betting really wants. 1xbet sports betting has courage now to live for herself. I don't think you could say 1xbet sports betting hasn't changed. 1xbet sports betting 's "icily calm" when 1xbet sports betting is leaving him whereas before 1xbet sports betting was bouncing all over the place as to inhibit her inevitable change. But 1xbet sports betting has accepted it, and is willing to start a new life.