- InterChange Conference on 1xbet online casino in Forster's
Howards 1xbet online casino (1xbet online casino 1-22)
- June 12, 2000
- Karin Westman:
- Early in Forster's novel, Margaret says to Helen: &1xbet online casino ;This
outer life, though obviously horrid, often seems the real one
-- there's grit in it. It does breed character. Do personal relations
lead to sloppiness in the end?&1xbet online casino ; (page 28/Chp. 4). Helen
responds (much as Forster might in his essay, &1xbet online casino ;What I Believe&1xbet online casino ;)
that &1xbet online casino ;personal relations are the real life, for ever and
ever,&1xbet online casino ; to which Margaret then replies, &1xbet online casino ;Amen&1xbet online casino ;
(page 28/Chp. 4).
- Given the 200 hundred pages you've read so far, do you think
Margaret and Helen are correct -- that is, are we to think that
personal relations are the &1xbet online casino ;real life&1xbet online casino ;? Why or why
not?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that the whole book explores the pros and cons of
both perspectives. Margaret in particular recognizes the value
of the Wilcox's business manner--but even Helen is attracted
by it in the end. The bottom line though, seems to be that while
the Schlegal sisters are capable of appreciating the business
and materialistic mindedness of the 1xbet online casino , the 1xbet online casino cannot
understand and/or appreciate the culture and open-mindedness
of the Schlegals.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- aagh, I meant that Helen is attracted to 1xbet online casino in the BEGINNING.
- Karin Westman:
- Good points, Elizabeth -- what eactly are the benefits of
the&1xbet online casino ;Wilcox way&1xbet online casino ;?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- They are extremely efficient in business matters. Also everyone
seems to notice and admire their superiority. I mean, the way
they treat lower classes. For instance that section where Margaret
knows the driver's name and Henry is shocked. For him the chauffer
is a utility. Margaret is intrigued by 1xbet online casino .
- Elizabeth Davis:
- helen and meg feed off relationships as a way to make life
1xbet online casino . dining with guests and repeating conversations about art
and asthetics seem like a contridiction. .. 1xbet online casino people with
created art. the outer art breeds the character that bloomsbury,
london, and germany appear to be.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- There is something powerful about arrogance. Not to say that
it is attractive, but one gets a sense that Henry's authority
on the Prophyrion and other companies is the bottom line. We
know that it isn't and when he is wrong, and those of less means
who have gotten caught up in his authoritative manner (the Schlegals
and Mr. Bast) suffer from it. But his &1xbet online casino ;way&1xbet online casino ; has swept
them in, away from their Beethoven concerts so-to-speak.
- Karin Westman:
- Do the 1xbet online casino offer substantial food for the Schlegels,
Elizabeth D.?
- 1xbet online casino :
- I believe that their is a partial truth to this statement.
How true the statement is really depends on one's perception
of the statement. In this novel, 1xbet online casino definitely
form the real life with regards to class status and social structure.
But when considering this, and also considering the significant
differences among the Wilcoxes, Schlegels, and Leonard Bast,
it can also be argued that these differences that society creates-based
on wealth, materialism, and cultural reputation, only help to
dress up and conceal the realism of social realtions. When you
strip away these superficial aspects of social interaction, then
you can see just how real 1xbet online casino are in this novel
with regards to Helen's statement to Meg.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I agree with Elizabeth Davis in that the Schlegal sisters
seem to reap the benefits of their energies through their relationships.
All the Wilcoxes have is business reward which ends up being
cold money and material goods--like the car. The comparative
values of the two according to what we know about Bloomsbury
so far would suggest that the Schlegals have their priorities
in order or &1xbet online casino ;Amen.&1xbet online casino ;
- Karin Westman:
- What do you all make of Doug's comment about the role of
social factors in this realm of &1xbet online casino ;personal relations&1xbet online casino ;?
That they have a big impact on those relations?
- Elizabeth Davis:
- yes, the 1xbet online casino give the schlegels plenty to rant and rave
over. mrs. wilcox is an older generation who cares nothing for
the mindless conversations of art and beaty the schlegels carry
on. the wilcox men are unorthodox in schlegel expectations...tibby
is a healthy balance betweeen masculinity and intlellect whereas
the 1xbet online casino are clueless.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think Doug is right on the money. The social chasm between
the Wilcoxes and Leonard Bast seems to make it impossible for
the two to be interested in the condition of the other. Even
the Schlegals are so intimidating to Leonard that he is dying
to just get his umbrella and run, despite the potential outlet
for his cultural passions that would result in talking extensively
with the Schlegals. I think that 1xbet online casino relationships are almost
limited to reward by class. Meaning that even if they weren't
sisters, Helen and Margaret would be most likely to reap the
benifits of their relationship with each other as opposed to
a combination of other characters.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- the social factors directly affect 1xbet online casino .
- Elizabeth Davis:
- ...hang on, i have more to that....e
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't think that Tibby is a &1xbet online casino ;healthy balance&1xbet online casino ;
beyond the Wilcoxes perception because his intellect is completely
primary. He seems to value nothing more than he does his schooling.
There is evidence at the concert that he purposely avoids personal
interaction (chasing after Helen with the stolen umbrella) in
order to enrich himself in the &1xbet online casino ;study&1xbet online casino ; of Beethoven's
music.
- 1xbet online casino :
- I think that it's interesting to compare and contrast the
two ends of the social spectrum that the 1xbet online casino and Schlegel's
represent. Whereas the former family finds money and materialism
to be at the heart of living content lifestyles, the Schegel
sisters find the real contentment is to be sought through English
culturalism and social idealism. The two views can be seen as
complete opposites, or can be seen as as two ideas that go hand
in hand. I don't know which way Forster wants readers to see
this.
- Karin Westman:
- On Tibby: ourr narrator tells us that 1xbet online casino wamrs the teapot
almost too efficiently--that 1xbet online casino 's too well versed in those feminine
ways, which kind of sounds like a criticism to me....
- Elizabeth Davis:
- 1xbet online casino deems to be an idea out of the ordinary
here. how can one have a persoanl relationship without the person.
and little or no person is given. we are given addresses, thoughts
on love and music, and how bored mrs. wilcox is with london.
the real person gets mixed up in the social relm. yet, we see
charles and his father react to mrs. wilcox's note in a real
way.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't know that the particular references to Tibby's efficiency
or feminine ways are particularly criticism or if 1xbet online casino is just
a refection of the effects of growing up in a household of women.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- i don't think that is criticism on tibby's behalf. i think
it makes him more solidly a &1xbet online casino ;renniasance man&1xbet online casino ; in this
book. shows his abilities outside the expected masculine ways.
- &1xbet online casino ;too efficiently&1xbet online casino ; i guess that could be criticism
but i see tibby as an idealistic masculine snob.
- Karin Westman:
- Good point -- so, does our narrator ask us to question the
degree of &1xbet online casino ;femininity&1xbet online casino ; in the Schlegel household, or
the masculinity of the Wilcox one?
- Karin Westman:
- If you'd like to switch to the other conference, you can....just
use the &1xbet online casino ;Join a conference&1xbet online casino ; function, and wait for
all the messages to load in.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that Forster is more sympathetic to the Schlegals.
However, he seems to do this by recognizing the Schlegal sister's
intellectual capacity (all the discussion of women's lib is not
for naught...) to contend with or understand the 1xbet online casino masculinity
whereas the 1xbet online casino are closed to the realms of femininity and/or
sensitivity to culture.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- right, elizabeth. the wilcox do not explore anything out
of class or gender roles whereas the tibby and 1xbet online casino sisters have
crosssed all lines.
- Karin Westman:
- Good points about gender crossing in the 1xbet online casino camp...
- So, why do we need the 1xbet online casino , if the Schlegel contigent
can be both masculine and feminine? (Or, are they not enough
Wilcox-like....?)
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I don't like the 1xbet online casino . I say we get rid of 'em.
- Karin Westman:
- ****In order to wrap this first half of our discussion, offer
a final posting in response to this question: Does Margaret and
Helen's credo of &1xbet online casino ;personal relations&1xbet online casino ; ultimately encourage
connection between people in this book, or prevent it, work against
it?
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- Just kidding. I think that in this novel especially, the
1xbet online casino are such a wonderful contrast to the Schlegals it makes
the reader recognize how truly exceptional they are. In reality
(even in England :P) there are all kinds of people and all kinds
of priorities on the spectrum. Forster is asking us to question
our core values as well as the efficiency of the social system.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- we need the 1xbet online casino for contrast. in a boring way.
- Elizabeth Andrews:
- I think that the credo of the Schlegal sisters encourages
connection in Howard's End. Just look at Margaret's determination
to connect with Henry. Even though she seems to operate on a
different level she sees the potential of a &1xbet online casino ;bridge&1xbet online casino ;
that will result in a &1xbet online casino ;beautiful&1xbet online casino ; relationship.
- Elizabeth Davis:
- helen and meg's credo encourage &1xbet online casino ;personal relations&1xbet online casino ;
in an artsy sense of superficiality. the people don't seem as
important as the relationship itself. the &1xbet online casino ;personal&1xbet online casino ;
part of relationships is does not exist. the connections between
people are encouraged through their connections elsewhere.
- Other points to consider: Does desire (especially sexual
desire) interfere with the success of &1xbet online casino ;personal relations&1xbet online casino ;
or augment their success? When Forster's narrator remarks that
&1xbet online casino ;[i]t is private life that holds out the mirror to infinity;
personal intercourse, and that alone, that ever hints at a personality
beyond our daily presence&1xbet online casino ; (84), what kind of &1xbet online casino ;personality&1xbet online casino ;
is the narrator referring to?
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- Return to 1xbet online casino 395