- InterChange Conference on Woolf's To the Lighthouse
(pp.1-71)
- June 19, 2000
- 1xbet online casino :
- Reflecting on Mrs. Ramsay's "wilful" and "commanding"
character and 1xbet online casino ability to "adroitly shape," "even
maliciously twist," people's needs and requests, Lily describes
a scene between the two of them:
-
- and, moving over to the window, in pretence that she must
go, -- it was dawn, she could see the sun rising, -- [she would]
half turn back, more intimately, but still always laughing, insist
that she must, Minta must, they all must marry, since in the
whole world whatever laurels might be tossed to 1xbet online casino (but Mrs.
Ramsay cared not a fig for 1xbet online casino painting), or triumphs won by
1xbet online casino (probably Mrs. Ramsay had 1xbet online casino share of those), and here she
saddened, darkened, and came back to 1xbet online casino chair, there could be
no disputing this: an unmarried woman (she lightly took 1xbet online casino hand
for a moment), an umarried woman had missed the best of life.
(49)
- Why does Mrs. Ramsay insist that MInta and Lily "must"
marry? How does our knowledge of 1xbet online casino marriage to Mr. Ramsay influence
our reading of 1xbet online casino desires for Minta and Lily, as well as our
reading of the novel's view of marriage?
- 1xbet online casino :
- Looks like marriage is supposed to save the girls, unlike
1xbet online casino own marriage to Mr. Ramsay.
- Amy Ketner:
- a married woman has a better chance in the society of the
day to better herself and use 1xbet online casino tallents to better 1xbet online casino family--being
backed up by a husband was important
- 1xbet online casino :
- What will 1xbet online casino save them from, Elizabeth?
- Amy Ketner:
- 1xbet online casino Ramsay is not able to see that marriage is not essential
for all women, and that some can benifit from being single
- 1xbet online casino :
- Elizabeth's right. Mrs. Ramsay is using 1xbet online casino influence to
persuade Minta and Lily to marry because she doesn't want the
two to miss that great aspect of their lives. And yet, 1xbet online casino own
marriage seems unsatisfactory. This is probably shown when Mrs.
Ramsay suddenly saddens in this description of 1xbet online casino .
- Caroline Hunt:
- I'm curious why Mrs. Ramsey "saddened" and "darkened"
and put forth this view not as 1xbet online casino own heartfelt one but as an
inescapable fact of social life ("there could be no disputing
this"). In other words, why is she insisting on something
that she herself seems to feel ambivalent about (at best)?
- (A note--I haven't read 1xbet online casino novel in over 30 years, so I
hope you'll help me out here.)
- 1xbet online casino :
- Let's talk more about Mrs. Ramsay's dissatisifaction with
1xbet online casino marriage: What does she dislike? Does she admit that marriage
is not "perfect"?
- 1xbet online casino :
- the girls are theorectically going to be &1xbet online casino ;taken care
of&1xbet online casino ; and worked into society when the marry. but it seems
to me that if they married a man that they &1xbet online casino ;disliked his
narrowness and blindness&1xbet online casino ; and resented looking after him
then they were not being saved from solitude and a life as an
old maid. rather, they were intering into a solitary confinement.
- 1xbet online casino :
- entering
- 1xbet online casino :
- Mrs. Ramsay has conformed to a social standard for women
of 1xbet online casino time. How much more were unmarried women frowned upon
during this time period? She's met the expectations of 1xbet online casino generation
through 1xbet online casino marriage, but she cannot totally conceal 1xbet online casino lack
of fulfillment through 1xbet online casino marriage.
- Amy Ketner:
- It seems that 1xbet online casino . Ramsay should be the first to understand
the girls hesitation towards marriage
- 1xbet online casino :
- Yes -- What has she lost, or not gained? What leaves 1xbet online casino
unfulfilled?
- Are we to see 1xbet online casino as hypocritical, given Amy's comment?
- Caroline Hunt:
- Doug raises an important point. Unmarried women were in a
different situation at this particular time than before or after--because
such a huge proportion of young men had been killed in the war.
Thus, on the one hand, it was somewhat more respectable than
usual to be single if your young man had &1xbet online casino ;not come back&1xbet online casino ;
-- on the other hand, I suspect there must have been a feeling
that those who _did_ have a chance to marry would be somehow
ungrateful not to take it.
- Amy Ketner:
- Maybe not so much hypocritical as just unwilling to accept
the fact that society could be wrong
- 1xbet online casino :
- Mrs. Ramsay can understand the girls' hesitation to marry,
but 1xbet online casino wants the best for the girls, so 1xbet online casino persuades the most
socially acceptable path for them.
- 1xbet online casino :
- she dislikes 1xbet online casino husband! she dislikes his focus on himself!
he teaches and preaches to everyone outside the family and speaks
only "nonsense" to them.
- Caroline Hunt:
- Do we see some of the same psychological syndromes today?
Mrs. Ramsey has invested so much of 1xbet online casino life and energy in the
"system" of marriage shown here that she is reluctant
to criticize it openly.
- In its extreme form, this line of emotional response leads
to what is called &1xbet online casino ;Stockholm Syndrome,&1xbet online casino ; in which hostages
become drawn to their keepers.
- 1xbet online casino :
- a hypocrite, i'm not sure. yes, in that she wants 1xbet online casino girls
to enter an instituion that has left 1xbet online casino emotionally empty and
hungry. she is not a hypocrite for wanting something good for
1xbet online casino girls, a way out of the stagnation of their relationship
with Mr. ramsy
- 1xbet online casino :
- So. 1xbet online casino may only stay married because that is what 1xbet online casino should
or must do, instead of going off and becoming the investigator
1xbet online casino dreams of (p.9).
- What has marraige allowed Mrs. Ramsay to do or be, then,
contained as 1xbet online casino is within its cultural confines?
- 1xbet online casino :
- It would make sense for Mrs. Ramsay to have Stockholm syndrome,
because here we see what she feels in 1xbet online casino heart, and yet she
makes a statement that would fall in line with 1xbet online casino husband's
ideals.
- 1xbet online casino :
- If Mrs. Ramsay were so contained by 1xbet online casino marriage, then wouldn't
it be better and far more interesting to see 1xbet online casino encourage the
girls to boldly follow a path that she herself could never take.
I guess that would be a negative way of 1xbet online casino living through someone
else.
- Amy Ketner:
- Marriage has allowed 1xbet online casino not to follow 1xbet online casino dream for 1xbet online casino
life and conform to the thoughts and ideals of 1xbet online casino husband--as
far as 1xbet online casino place in society--she was not rich--she is a woman
who is left to take care of 1xbet online casino eight children and listen to
1xbet online casino husband.
- Caroline Hunt:
- Going back to Karin's most recent question--and this is a
real question to me, meaning I don't know the answer--what has
marriage, the institution, offered to Mrs. R. than makes it worth
1xbet online casino while to "buy into" the whole idea? Is she separating
the institution somehow from 1xbet online casino own particular situation? Or
is she somehow mentally discounting Mr. R. the real person so
that he isn't a part of "marriage" in the abstract?
- 1xbet online casino :
- Doug's comment suggests that Mrs. Ramsay *could* chose to
act on 1xbet online casino strength and send the girls towards a different life.
Of course, I've jsut presumed that she is a strong character:
What to the rest of you think? What evidence do we have of any
strength that suggests she could take the action Doug describes?
- 1xbet online casino :
- marrige has allowed mrs. ramsay decide what she wants. it
took eight kids and a stale marrige for 1xbet online casino to voice courage
instead of dreams. are 1xbet online casino kids eight attempts to fill the voids
inflicted by 1xbet online casino husband/marriage?
- 1xbet online casino :
- ****If you'd like to switch to the other conference and join
that conversation, you can -- just use the &1xbet online casino ;Join a conference&1xbet online casino ;
command from the InterChange menu, and wait for the messages
to load....
- 1xbet online casino :
- Mrs. Ramsay is obviously very headstrong, so what I wonder
is how badly Mrs. Ramsay really wants out. Does 1xbet online casino consider
all the implications or see an alternative reality to the one
1xbet online casino has?
- 1xbet online casino :
- Yes, I think they might be, ELizabeth, especially since she
says she always wants to have a baby in 1xbet online casino arms.
- 1xbet online casino :
- A good question, Doug: 1xbet online casino talks about wanting to become
an inspector (but the childen prevent such possibility), but
would 1xbet online casino take that plunge? What kind of power (or happiness?)
does 1xbet online casino have in marriage, suich that 1xbet online casino 's willing not to give
it up?
- 1xbet online casino :
- mrs. ramsay doesn't even feel worthy to tie the man's shoes
and feels like a sponge without rain. who would encourage daughters
into this? loyalty to 1xbet online casino "master"? i hope Woolf was
dramatizing the reality! but daughters are loyal to their mothers,
right? conflict.
- on another note, even the little boy doesn't like to be used
as a measure for someone else. i think we see a lot of desire
for individualism. or am i taking symbolism too far?
- 1xbet online casino :
- I wonder if were supposed to see 1xbet online casino eight children as eight
attempts towards contentment. Do they represent eight trials?
If so, what does that say about 1xbet online casino love for and committment
to 1xbet online casino family?
- Caroline Hunt:
- It's odd that Mrs. Ramsey wants to be an "inspector."
Have any of you ever had that ambition? I doubt it. This strikes
me as basically an "outside" version of what she is
already doing, to an amazing extent, inside 1xbet online casino family: scrutinizing,
evaluating, controlling--rather as Lily says in the header to
the discussion at the top of this page.
- What is it about the culture of the time that makes 1xbet online casino want
to be an "inspector" -- is that the best dream she
can imagine?
- 1xbet online casino :
- No, 1xbet online casino , I think you're right- those strives for individuality
are there in most of the characters, I think, either thought
or voiced.
- 1xbet online casino :
- At this point in time, I think Mrs. Ramsay's desire to be
an inspector would be one very small step towards 1xbet online casino individualism
and idealism. Maybe she's beginning to follow 1xbet online casino heart and move
in a different direction.
- 1xbet online casino Andrews:
- I think Mrs. Ramsey is potentially confined by 1xbet online casino commitment.
Maybe she'll end up being like Ms. Marple in those British mysteries
after 1xbet online casino children are grown and 1xbet online casino husband gone. Like Elizabeth
was saying, individuality seems to be an ideal. Investigators
are kind of loners in that sense. They achieve something through
their own thought potential. That kind of dream could easily
represent 1xbet online casino desire to be independant of 1xbet online casino dominating husband.
But as ideal as it may seem in thought, none of the characters
(yet) seem to ACT so as to bring about change or independance.
Maybe it is too far out there for 1xbet online casino to consider the dream as
a reality.
- 1xbet online casino :
- To wrap up this half of our discussion, offer a final posting
that returns to the initial question about the novel's view of
marriage: Given Mrs. Ramsay's character and 1xbet online casino marriage to Mr.
Ramsay, how are we supposed to view the institution of marriage?
- Amy Ketner:
- It seems that this 1xbet online casino is trapping.
- Caroline Hunt:
- Stultifying--crippling--numbing (at best).
- 1xbet online casino :
- 1xbet online casino seems to me that everyone sees that society expects one
to marry as a social standard, yet so many find themselves reluctant
to enter into 1xbet online casino , or if they already have, end up wondering:
what if?
- 1xbet online casino :
- the idea is stability and security in society. the reality
is empty and foul. one would be better off without--
- 1xbet online casino Andrews:
- Unfulfilling. However neither Mr. Ramsey nor his wife seem
to make great strides in cultivating their relationship.
-
- Return to ENGL 395